Comments on: Book Review: The Complete Turtle Trader: The Legend, the Lessons, the Results http://www.traineetrader.com/book-review-the-complete-turtle-trader-the-legend-the-lessons-the-results/ Trainee Trader provides articles and tutorials related to Forex, Derivatives, Equities and Futures markets. Wed, 24 Feb 2010 20:29:08 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: M. Covel http://www.traineetrader.com/book-review-the-complete-turtle-trader-the-legend-the-lessons-the-results/comment-page-1/#comment-170 M. Covel Mon, 17 Dec 2007 01:41:33 +0000 http://traineetrader.com/book-review-the-complete-turtle-trader-the-legend-the-lessons-the-results/#comment-170 Shonzilla, you make a good point here: "...merit of the book appears not to be the system itself, but the methodology of the experiment as well as the psychology of the experimenters and participants." I posted some excerpts from an online afterword tonight on my blog. Much of the excerpts go to your point. Shonzilla, you make a good point here:

“…merit of the book appears not to be the system itself, but the methodology of the experiment as well as the psychology of the experimenters and participants.”

I posted some excerpts from an online afterword tonight on my blog. Much of the excerpts go to your point.

]]> By: admin http://www.traineetrader.com/book-review-the-complete-turtle-trader-the-legend-the-lessons-the-results/comment-page-1/#comment-169 admin Sun, 16 Dec 2007 23:58:37 +0000 http://traineetrader.com/book-review-the-complete-turtle-trader-the-legend-the-lessons-the-results/#comment-169 Shonzilla, The story of the turtles is a very interesting one; the book’s emphasis is providing an accurate well referenced account of the turtle experiment. As with any system you have to do a bit of independent research. As for your question I don’t believe that trend following systems are irrelevant in todays market, however as David pointed out it is important to test the strategy yourself and ensure it meets your requirements. Cheers Mark Shonzilla,

The story of the turtles is a very interesting one; the book’s emphasis is providing an accurate well referenced account of the turtle experiment. As with any system you have to do a bit of independent research. As for your question I don’t believe that trend following systems are irrelevant in todays market, however as David pointed out it is important to test the strategy yourself and ensure it meets your requirements.

Cheers
Mark

]]> By: money news blog » Book Review: The Complete Turtle Trader: The Legend, the Lessons, the Results http://www.traineetrader.com/book-review-the-complete-turtle-trader-the-legend-the-lessons-the-results/comment-page-1/#comment-165 money news blog » Book Review: The Complete Turtle Trader: The Legend, the Lessons, the Results Sat, 15 Dec 2007 15:19:44 +0000 http://traineetrader.com/book-review-the-complete-turtle-trader-the-legend-the-lessons-the-results/#comment-165 [...] For more visit Source:traineetrader.com [...] [...] For more visit Source:traineetrader.com [...]

]]> By: Shonzilla http://www.traineetrader.com/book-review-the-complete-turtle-trader-the-legend-the-lessons-the-results/comment-page-1/#comment-164 Shonzilla Sat, 15 Dec 2007 14:56:27 +0000 http://traineetrader.com/book-review-the-complete-turtle-trader-the-legend-the-lessons-the-results/#comment-164 Hello Trainee Traders, I stumbled on you via the Entrecard you dropped on me. Thanks for that and this book recommendation. Story of Turtle Traders sounds like a very intriguing one. It is interesting to read about an experiment where 2.3% of people (not 1.3%) were given an opportunity to "play" with $1M of 1983 dollars. That fact alone make this a curious if not controversial book. Some book reviews on Amazon point out that trade-following system is as of today rather outdated (David here also indicates some of his negative experiences with the system). Rather, merit of the book appears not to be the system itself, but the methodology of the experiment as well as the psychology of the experimenters and participants. I wonder how good could the trade-following system be exercised in younger stock markets. What are your thoughts on this? Cheers! Shonzilla Hello Trainee Traders,

I stumbled on you via the Entrecard you dropped on me. Thanks for that and this book recommendation.

Story of Turtle Traders sounds like a very intriguing one. It is interesting to read about an experiment where 2.3% of people (not 1.3%) were given an opportunity to “play” with $1M of 1983 dollars. That fact alone make this a curious if not controversial book.

Some book reviews on Amazon point out that trade-following system is as of today rather outdated (David here also indicates some of his negative experiences with the system). Rather, merit of the book appears not to be the system itself, but the methodology of the experiment as well as the psychology of the experimenters and participants.

I wonder how good could the trade-following system be exercised in younger stock markets.

What are your thoughts on this?

Cheers!
Shonzilla

]]> By: David Thompson http://www.traineetrader.com/book-review-the-complete-turtle-trader-the-legend-the-lessons-the-results/comment-page-1/#comment-156 David Thompson Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:51:51 +0000 http://traineetrader.com/book-review-the-complete-turtle-trader-the-legend-the-lessons-the-results/#comment-156 Thanks for your comments Mark. WealthLab has to pick up data from a stand alone data base. The one that I use for WL is QuoteMonkey by Primate. Its very easy to install and update the data, and I had no problems linking it up with the WL software (I think it one WL recommend). It too is not expensive ($230 per year for daily data). The other comment that I would like to make on trent following trading is that all the trading ratios (profit factor, win/loss, recovery etc) vastly improve when you trade in the direction of the longer term trend. This sounds obvious, but when you are looking for opportunities it can be tempting to trade in this way, which is ok if you adjust your rules, and/or accept that the odds are worse. Thanks, David Thanks for your comments Mark. WealthLab has to pick up data from a stand alone data base. The one that I use for WL is QuoteMonkey by Primate. Its very easy to install and update the data, and I had no problems linking it up with the WL software (I think it one WL recommend). It too is not expensive ($230 per year for daily data).

The other comment that I would like to make on trent following trading is that all the trading ratios (profit factor, win/loss, recovery etc) vastly improve when you trade in the direction of the longer term trend. This sounds obvious, but when you are looking for opportunities it can be tempting to trade in this way, which is ok if you adjust your rules, and/or accept that the odds are worse.

Thanks, David

]]> By: admin http://www.traineetrader.com/book-review-the-complete-turtle-trader-the-legend-the-lessons-the-results/comment-page-1/#comment-154 admin Wed, 12 Dec 2007 12:51:07 +0000 http://traineetrader.com/book-review-the-complete-turtle-trader-the-legend-the-lessons-the-results/#comment-154 David, Thanks for your input; I too have heard good things about wealth lab and it is fairly well priced. I will be taking it for a test drive when I have a bit of time to spare. As you pointed out it is very important to thoroughly test any system before implementation. I am glad that you have had success identifying rules that give you an edge. Cheers Mark David,

Thanks for your input; I too have heard good things about wealth lab and it is fairly well priced. I will be taking it for a test drive when I have a bit of time to spare. As you pointed out it is very important to thoroughly test any system before implementation. I am glad that you have had success identifying rules that give you an edge.

Cheers
Mark

]]> By: David Thompson http://www.traineetrader.com/book-review-the-complete-turtle-trader-the-legend-the-lessons-the-results/comment-page-1/#comment-149 David Thompson Tue, 11 Dec 2007 11:59:02 +0000 http://traineetrader.com/book-review-the-complete-turtle-trader-the-legend-the-lessons-the-results/#comment-149 I started out trading using the Turtle trend following rules. I was moderately successful in that I didn't blow-up! I have subsequently purchased some brilliant software from WealthLab which makes backtesting trading strategies fairly easy. In addition, there is a great optimisation routine. Now I know all the arguements about curve fitting etc, but believe me, the basic Turtle 55/20 entry/exit rules are WAY OFF optimum (by whatever ratios you care to study - eg profit, profit factor, recovery factor, win/loss ratios etc) for the majority of commodities. For instance, if you leave it 20 days lowest low to exit Cocoa, you will never make money. There are one or two futures markets where the Turtle rules are robust. What is interesting is that I discovered through analysis, that some commodities could not even be traded over time with a trend following approach, and yet others are incredibly robust, and over time, you cannot fail to make money by trading simple trend following rules applied to these commodities. For some commodities, many of the ratios (profit, profit factor, win/loss, recovery factors etc) optimise at around particular entry/exit rules. These are what I call robust. These are the commodities that I trade relatively aggressively. I started out trading using the Turtle trend following rules. I was moderately successful in that I didn’t blow-up! I have subsequently purchased some brilliant software from WealthLab which makes backtesting trading strategies fairly easy. In addition, there is a great optimisation routine. Now I know all the arguements about curve fitting etc, but believe me, the basic Turtle 55/20 entry/exit rules are WAY OFF optimum (by whatever ratios you care to study – eg profit, profit factor, recovery factor, win/loss ratios etc) for the majority of commodities. For instance, if you leave it 20 days lowest low to exit Cocoa, you will never make money. There are one or two futures markets where the Turtle rules are robust. What is interesting is that I discovered through analysis, that some commodities could not even be traded over time with a trend following approach, and yet others are incredibly robust, and over time, you cannot fail to make money by trading simple trend following rules applied to these commodities. For some commodities, many of the ratios (profit, profit factor, win/loss, recovery factors etc) optimise at around particular entry/exit rules. These are what I call robust. These are the commodities that I trade relatively aggressively.

]]> By: admin http://www.traineetrader.com/book-review-the-complete-turtle-trader-the-legend-the-lessons-the-results/comment-page-1/#comment-148 admin Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:31:22 +0000 http://traineetrader.com/book-review-the-complete-turtle-trader-the-legend-the-lessons-the-results/#comment-148 Johnathen, I totally agree with you, Mike gives an enormous amount of detail in his book about the experiment, the individual personalities and the conflicts. It would be impossible for me to capture all of this detail in a review. Another aspect that I found interesting in the book was how much Bill Eckhardt was involved in the turtles training. I would be very interested to hear if you have implemented a trading system using the turtle rules. You can e-mail me at editor at traineetrader.com or post a follow up comment. Cheers Mark Johnathen,
I totally agree with you, Mike gives an enormous amount of detail in his book about the experiment, the individual personalities and the conflicts. It would be impossible for me to capture all of this detail in a review. Another aspect that I found interesting in the book was how much Bill Eckhardt was involved in the turtles training.

I would be very interested to hear if you have implemented a trading system using the turtle rules. You can e-mail me at editor at traineetrader.com or post a follow up comment.

Cheers
Mark

]]> By: Johnathen nash http://www.traineetrader.com/book-review-the-complete-turtle-trader-the-legend-the-lessons-the-results/comment-page-1/#comment-147 Johnathen nash Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:39:01 +0000 http://traineetrader.com/book-review-the-complete-turtle-trader-the-legend-the-lessons-the-results/#comment-147 I agree the book was without question the most anticaped book, I could possibly ever imagine. This has been my religon and my blood,This has been the most gravataing addiction I has faced in my life. TT. Mikes bring to light how generational experiments blend and meld. Yet you didn't tell the whole story. J -Nash. I agree the book was without question the most anticaped book, I could possibly ever imagine.

This has been my religon and my blood,This has been the most gravataing addiction I has faced in my life. TT.

Mikes bring to light how generational experiments blend and meld. Yet you didn’t tell the whole story.

J -Nash.

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